Dodger Excuses, World Series Hangovers, Is Bum Puig's Muse?
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Benjamin: Welcome back to the San Francisco giants, addition of for the fans by the fans, a podcast where we bring you your weekly dose of all things, San Francisco giants. From the fans perspective, I'm a lifelong giants Fan and your host Benjamin Shapiro. After growing up in two down against the Los Angeles angels of Anaheim and the Washington nationals, the giant sit at two games below 500 after last week. And we welcome back. Chris Smith. Chris is an avid giants fan and former professional football player who now works in commercial real estate in Newport, California. But before we talk to Chris About Matt Williamson, taking Justin Turner Swing and becoming Babe Ruth, I want to tell you about our friends at Fanatics.
Benjamin: Fanatics is the global leader in licensed sports merchandise. They have the world's largest collection of official sports apparel from all the leagues, teams and players that you love. So if you're a dodgers fan and you want that Hugh Darvish tee shirt to commemorate the four runs he gave up in an inning and two thirds in game seven of the world series, it's on sale for a reasonable 1799. So when you buy your fanatics gear, either mockingly for your daughter's friends or to support the giants and you go to ftfbtf.com/fanatics., they'll kick us a couple of bucks to help with the production of this show. That said, Andre, welcome back to the pot. Ready for 30 minutes of dodger mockery.
Andre: I cannot wait to hear my voice. It's decidedly less Turkey and optimistic than the last time.
Benjamin: So on a scale of one to five, where five is, I just bet my house that were winning the world series and one is I'm shitting my pants. How do you feel about the dodgers chances this season?
Andre: How about a negative to clean up aisle five? I'm not giving up or throwing in the towel, but there is reason for concern with the and blue and I think I brought this up in the last pod in that we somehow forget that this team, that stadium called phone booth park [inaudible] packed, but whatever you want to call it, there are rivals and yet we come up here and rollover. I don't know why we talked about last time how the Tommy Lasorda era that would have been unacceptable and yet we lost three out of four and I'm sure, but there's been a lot of time to talk to you about our wonderful bullpen, which has been the core of my anxiety, but really the core of how we work, not doing that well and second to last place right now.
Benjamin: So in the last series, the actual score between the four games was 24 to 24, but the giants won three of four. To me, that's what really sticks out. Obviously there was game three, which was a big win in terms of run differential for the dodgers. I think the score was 15 to six, but the giant eked out a couple of close games and then the doctors put it on the giants in the one when the good news is, at least for us, we have a one game lead in the season series and we're a little bit ahead in the standings.
Andre: Last Friday, OK, I don't know what Robert's maybe has like photos or maybe some instagram posts that had been suppressed of Dave Roberts and lingerie riding a donkey in Tijuana or something like that, but why the hell is Dave Roberts from rolling out by as continually now by us had a solid two and a two thirds and against a d backs and helped us split that series there, which I was shocked with, but he single handedly killer opportunity to secure the win last Friday, which I was hoping for Split let alone a series yet has yet to happen with you guys.
Benjamin: The Evan Longoria three home run bomb to put the giants ahead in the last game of the series. Take the series three games to one. Probably made my week if not my month. And you mentioned the bullpen, I want to ask you a little bit about why the dodgers are losing. Is this a world series hangover? Is there a problem with the team? What's causing them to underperform so dramatically?
Andre: I'd have to say for like the last three years that has been suspect during that straight last summer that we all went like 12 or something ridiculous, you know, from my June to early August before they went on to another crappy streak of losing. It feels like a good streak streak. But, but it did expose was our bull pen and it's always been like our strength, but I will say last year we were going through some of the same issue as well, principally with bias, but with our set up in long relief yet over the off season we lost Brandon Morrow who was incredible in the post season and we just let them go to a cubs now. I know that there was a luxury tax issue that we had to contend with, which is why we couldn't sign them. But I mentioned this in the last pod. We have a bloated bench and outfield off the bench so I could care less about more outfielders and would love to see us put some more money into that relief man because Kimberly Johnson ain't doing it for me by the way. I'm still getting a lot of heat from my friends who did listen to the last part about trading. Kershaw and I stand by that by Kirsch has been great. He's my all time favorite dodgers but a world series and I'll do whatever it takes to get what it means. Getting, you know, mad bum for him. Great. I'm looking at in the St Joe Kennedy, he's still going to be or closer for the next couple years, but need to have like an understudy because he ain't got it. Is laughing his way out.
Benjamin: So what's interesting to me is you didn't mention Tony Watson, who was a departure from the dodgers and the giants and he has been absolutely nails for the giants. Point six, six era, getting out lefties and righties. 13 innings pitched. He's only given up run to me. You talk about in your bullpen issues, the loss of Tony Watson flipping over from the dodgers to the giants has to hurt and he's really been a big contributor for our bill pen, so I just wanna say thank you for that.
Andre: That was a deliberate omission. Now it goes to Josh, but then does well after being with the dodgers lost. That will give Watson some time. I don't think that was as big of losses. Morrow a morrow was definitely a lights out in the playoffs last year. Yeah, a couple of or three bad innings during the world series that were entirely his fault, but I was really looking for him to come back this year. So you're asking me why the dodgers are losing? I think it's principally that bullpen, but then you look at like a ritual. Here comes another bad blister. Rich, what are you doing? Rich? What's up with the blisters? You had it with us. You had it with the a's, but he's on the DL. I'm mispronouncing his name. Was it a young Gen review? He actually went out last night against the dbx. So we're getting hit by the entry bug.
Andre: Of course. Your boy. Yes, yes. He's out our star outfielder. The future. Andrew toles. He's out. Logan foreside. He's out. But the biggest one that crushed me this week was the loss of Corey seager due to elbow issues. Someone going back to the last year and I now understand that he's gonna have to go through Tommy John Surgery and he's going to be out through maybe even the beginning of next year. And then on top of that we don't have big Red Justin Turner at third base playing either. So we've a lot of folks who are out and I don't know what compelled Dave Roberts is. Dang. In his wildest imagination. You still predicting that we're going to win the division. He's crazy.
Benjamin: Yeah, I understand what you're saying. And my response to that is, wow. Madison bumgarner out. Jeff [inaudible] out. Johnny Cueto out hunter pence out. Panic out will smith out. Melenson out. I'm sorry. Two Games ahead of 500. Cry me a river.
Andre: That whole list I think scrubs
Benjamin: Madison fucking
Andre: Gardner. Quite trained for. I'll give my left arm for Madison Bumgarner
Benjamin: you would actually give Clayton Kershaw has left arm for Madison Bumgarner
Andre: only if it met. It wasn't serious and for my fans, my growing list of fans who listen to the last pod, I got a lot of heat for that and I will say it again. If it means a world series, absolutely.
Benjamin: I think that puts you in the sell your soul to the devil group, but don't go too far. Pop Quiz for you. Who has more hits this season? Yasiel Puig or Gregor Blanca.
Andre: Block off.
Benjamin: Gregor Blanca has 18 hits, his batting 300 and Yasiel. PUIG has 17 hits and as batting a buck 97. What's up with your boy?
Andre: I don't know, man. I don't know what's going on. I want the wild horse. It's kind of like the whole Batman and joker that needs a joker or Batman. Of course she'll preexists Batman in this scenario and bummy oh, Maddie is the joker, but I think he needs his boy. They didn't Addison, but I'm going to need to come back out. Maybe the next time we play each other, which I don't think is going to happen until what, June or July, you know, maybe like it needs to be his little petulant self, throw it pre and maybe that will wake wake up and go about above the Mendoza line, but maybe they need each other. It didn't happen in the shift.
Benjamin: I understand how tweak might need Madison Bumgarner to get motivated, but Madison Bumgarner does not need Yasiel puig under any circumstances. What he needs is a healthy right hand and a base.
Andre: He needs something that he needs to. Something I can tell you right now, he's not going to go in the hall of fame. He's got those three rings. They'll come back this year. Maybe he'll go off roading again and yet again, which I'd be stoked for. Only if he's a giant. He's a dodger. I don't want that to happen, but actually knowing what we would get him and he pulled Jason Schmidt and you have built this for millions of dollars. Just be useless, but I love week.
Benjamin: Let's get into Madison Bumgarner's, Paula fame career potential. What do you think is the standard for a pitcher getting into the hall of fame? Is it wind strike outs? What's your standard?
Andre: I'm not going to have somebody stand up for what's been historically. It's like ticket your wins and typically it's you're in the conversation for sure if you have for longevity, so 300 wins is usually been the benchmark if not actually winning percentage because Sandy Colfax didn't have. When's? Yeah, winning percentage. You did have some rings and he had a hell of a lot of strike outs, so St Joe, Bob Gibson, I don't think he had 300 wins, but it was somewhere north of 200.
Benjamin: Don Drysdale, Hall of fame, dodgers Pitcher, 209. Career wins with a two point nine, five era. He had nine all star game appearances, so let's use him as a benchmark. The average hall of fame pitcher has 250 wins and a two point nine nine era.
Andre: So that was the category.
Benjamin: Yeah. If you get 300 wins, which honestly is not a good benchmark anymore because of the way that relievers are used, the starting pitchers are diminished because relievers come in and you get specialists more often. Let's see. Madison Bumgarner so far, he's been pitching for nine years. He has a hundred and four winds and a three point zero, one era. So hypothetically speaking, Madison bumgarner pitches for let's say eight more years. He has a career of 17 years and the average is around 15 wins a season and keeps his Ara static. Uh, just about three. That puts him in the Don Drysdale territory.
Andre: I would say it'd be fair if he achieves as a longevity sustained excellence with those rings then absolutely. I don't see that. I see that hillbilly getting hurt. Again, I don't know what he does in his own time, but it's usually doesn't sound like it's any good, which really makes me want to rethink this trey, but I'll just take a ray. I'm a whore like that.
Benjamin: I think the answer to your question is what does he do in the off-season? He wrestles cows and pigs to the ground with his bare hand carries giant logs over his head. He's country strong. That's what he does in the off-season. He rides dirtbikes. He doesn't care. He's Madison Bumgarner snot rocket.
Andre: I think it's almost like in that opening scene at Cape Fear where he has his makeshift shrines and he's like pumping iron. I tattooed, Hey, tattooed love and he has a shrine and the ICL and that's what's motivating them, but I don't know, sweet motivation up to win 15 games on average from the next eight years to be a a hall of Famer because I'll put it this way. Do you think Tim lincecum his hall of fame where they.
Benjamin: No, I don't think Tim lincecum had the prime of his career be long enough. I think that if any of the giants, three primary pitchers during what has been the world series era for us get in. It's bumgardner because they were a world series champion right as he arrived, so his career, assuming it's long enough is going to start with world championships and now it's about duration and consistent excellence.
Andre: Out of all those pictures you had hillbilly from the south, Kay. Which of those three? I mean I don't think [inaudible] hall of fame worthy either.
Benjamin: What happened to Cain frequently as he got caned, and what I mean by that is the giants would lose one. Nothing when he would pitch so early on in his career, the giants didn't have a bullpen. The team wasn't very good. He was sort of the beginning of that era and as he was early in his career, he would go pitch six, shut out innings, be done. They wouldn't have any bull pens, have their best chance for him to win, was to leave him out there and he'd give up five runs in the seventh or the eighth and so it was the era would be bloated, but there was a remarkable consistency of him being dominant in the beginning of the game. Getting to the point where he clearly should have been taken out. They just didn't have any other options and they were trying to teach him to go later in the evening. So that effected his stats and I think he was the most consistent and has stats, don't tell the story of how dominant he was. I think Tim Lincecum was the best pitcher I've ever seen at his apex and Madison Bumgarner is going to have the best career and has had the best post season success. So pick your poison.
Andre: No disagreement there. I actually thought stretching is here. He kept going for another six, seven, eight years ago. Very much like a Kofax kind of stretch where Kofax was in it for like eight years, but was a bad-ass. Right. Anyone those rings. So we'll see old boy. But I've asked you this like I did last time. I'm flipping it on her new now. Mr Ben, what's up with the schedule makers? The share. It's kind of taking the allure and the novelty of the robbery by stacking our series. How many games we played against each other so far.
Benjamin: So there was the four game opening series which we split. There was supposed to be a three game series, which one game
Andre: ran out. I remember that. Yeah.
Benjamin: That. So we basically split the first six games and then the giants won three out of four with the double header.
Andre: I just feel like it's like too early, you know, spread it out a little bit more so I don't have the schedule memorized again. Much to the Chagrin of my friends who are huge, giant hawks who I'm sure will be listening to this podcast. My. I have a life. I'm an adult. I don't memorize the schedule, but I'm OK. I'm OK with like this early tilt. What do you think your odds are? The usual sustained east coast road trip makes. I think we'd been beaten each other up in division early on. You guys took the series against the nationals. What are your thoughts on the National League? Central and the East?
Benjamin: I'll say two things. One whose podcast is this and to. Who cares about the schedule? We kicked your ass.
Andre: I'm trying to do everything I can to deflect.
Benjamin: Huh? Let's get back to business. Twenty percent of the season is in the books. You guys are a couple games under 500. You're saying that it's the middle relief? That's the problem, why you're losing, not pointing fingers at the starting pitching, which is why your middle relievers pitching. I'm curious to know, are dodgers fans turning on Dave Roberts or is it just looking at the players?
Andre: It's hard to tell when you read the comments of any blog or posting anywhere, so I'm kind of throwing that out and need to remind any my dodger fan friends that we had, don mattingly, that fool was our manager for the longest time and talk his way. He negotiated against himself. I work in sales and I manage a bunch of sales folks. Number one thing we do to prevent ourselves from losing deals to make sure you don't negotiate against ourselves and I feel like Bruce loved it when we came either to town or when he came down to La to play good old donny baseball, great player, awful manager, especially in game management and brushy would play him like a federal, some dumb, so I can't put the blame on Robert's. I would hope he would learn some of the things that he saw over the last two seasons, particularly in the season, but I don't know.
Andre: He is culpable for rolling out by us on a regular basis, but I think overall I do like his approach and tactics, especially his overall strategy. I guess this tactics can be question based on what I just said about buyers. So I did contradict myself a little bit. I have to say we've definitely been on the starting rotation. I mean Kershaw is not p Kershaw. He's been carrying this team for God knows how long. He's like play off Kershaw right now he is, but he's been known to like either hide injuries early in the season and if he is putting them on the shelf and park them until the second half. But Alex villages, so number two, my aid has been strong. Review is good until I got hurt yesterday and then it was going birth a booster for the eighth time in two years and then we'd get that Beuller kid and came up from the farm as well. So one thing I'm advocating is that we bring in few strong arms from the farm, you know, do what the world was in a couple years ago after they got shellacked by you guys will series the year that the rail is one. They brought in a good steady stream from that farm system and built out a really good middle long relief rotation or platoon to balance out their starters. I think the doctors should do that given how strong our pharmacy system is with the pitching.
Benjamin: There are very few things in the world that provide me with more joy than asking you have you soured on your manager and the answer is, well, anybody's better than don mattingly. We shouldn't give up on all the pitchers. That drove us to the best record in the majors last year. Let's just call up whoever they f we have in the minors because I've had it with. These guys were 13 and 16. It's a 44 percent win percentage sell, sell, sell,
Andre: 14 to 17, sorry, number two. Number three. I think we have a solid to decent starting pitching rotation. We've got some holes, a couple injuries. I'm just saying for the relief is where we are as screwed up as just the way the modern game is played. You gotta starting pitchers. I can go five, possibly six settings. Then you bring in your platoon of believers. Our current set of relievers sock. That's the only thing I would change. This hit the reset button on the relievers.
Benjamin: It's just the relievers. It has nothing to do with the fact that I don't know. Your rivals have hit more home runs than you. It has nothing to do with the fact that you're blaming injuries. You're blaming the bullpen, you're blaming the manager, gets a world series hangover, my friend. That's why the giants went even yours is that after you get far in the postseason, it effects you in the next year and unfortunately for you guys, you didn't get to the mountain top and I think the dodgers will come back eventually. I've never been scared of their two through five pitchers. I don't know what happened last year where all of a sudden everybody became Sandy Kofax, but the second half of your starting rotation to me feels thin. They don't feel like solid number two, three, four or five pitchers and honestly the giants. I feel like on the flip side, all we have is four, five, six, seven pictures. We've lost the beginning of our rotation, so it went from us being a couple of games under 500 to all of a sudden we win three series in a row, a couple games, over 500, and now everybody's singing a different tune. Birds are chirping, Saunas out dodgers are losing. It's a beautiful game.
Andre: Hopefully I'll be a guest again later in the season when we have a larger sample set of data to pull from. I will say that there's always a trade. Yeah, we get the trade line should be interesting between now and live July. What the doctors do. Three bringing Manny Machado. Since we don't have a corey seager, I would prefer to see more pitching brought in, but I think Alex went with snails last year in my Ada. Good. I don't know how ritual was able to. You got those wins either because he's like made out of porcelain, but I still think it's a relief man.
Benjamin: Do you think you can get you darvish back?
Andre: Oh God, I hate that guy.
Benjamin: Jason Schmidt. Our Trojan horse is available.
Andre: Oh God. I hate to. Hate is a strong word, but as I mentioned it last time, it's perfectly fine when thinking about the giants
Benjamin: hate and the baseball sense of the world.
Andre: Yes, yes.
Benjamin: The only appropriate thing to hate is your rival and baseball, and before I let you go, I want to introduce a new tradition to the for the fans by the San Francisco giant podcast we're introducing in honor of our friend Andre the knew Tommy Lasorda sound effect. So every time someone says, Tommy Lasorda, you get to here. So before we let you go, Andrea, give us a Tommy Lasorda,
Andre: Tommy Lasorda,
Benjamin: and that's your first time in Lasorda official for the fans, by the fans. Sound effect. And on that note, that's a wrap for today's show. Our plan is to do this every week, so if you either want more giants, baseball, or more dodger bashing in your podcast feed, click that subscribe button. Also, since we're just getting started, we'd love for you to give us a rating and the apple itunes store please. Dodgers Fan, keeps the ratings pg appropriate. And, uh, if you have any questions, go ahead and send them to us at, for the fans by the fans dot. Thanks again to our friends at fanatics. If you're going to go buy your giants gear, click the link in our show notes or go to f, Taf, btf dot slash fanatics, and they'll kick us a couple of bucks to help with the production of this show. And until next time, give us one more Lasorda,
Andre: Tommy Lasorda, Tommy Lasorda.
Benjamin: Until next time, swing and a miss. And that's it.