Phillies vs Giants: Rebuilding, 2010 NLCS, Throwing Batteries at Santa?
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Benjamin: Hello giants fans and welcome back to the San Francisco giants fans by the fans, a podcast where we bring you your weekly dose of all things, San Francisco giants, baseball. From the fans perspective, I'm a lifelong giants fan. and your Host Benjamin Shapiro. Has the giants get ready for their series with the fighting phillies of Philadelphia. We welcome Doug Bell to the pod. Doug is the vice president of marketing for one of my favorite consulting clients. Searchmetrics a software as a service SEO optimization company outside of slinging backlinks and h refs. Doug is a devoted fan of all things, Philadelphia Sports, and we're happy to welcome him to the for the fans by the fans podcast, but before doug tries to turn the focus of this podcast from baseball to football so he can talk about his beloved superbowl champion e a g l e s eagles. I want to remind you that this podcast is brought to you on behalf of our friends at fanatics.
Benjamin: Fanatics is the global leader in licensed sports merchandise. They have the world's largest collection of official sports apparel from all the leads, teams and players you love. They also have a Jersey insurance program, which means if you buy a jersey from a player who gets treated within 90 days of your purchase, fanatics will replace that Jersey with another Jersey from the same team. For example, if you're an eagles fan, like our buddy doug here, and you buy the Jersey of a journeyman quarterback turned superbowl champ, false fanatics, we'll exchange that Jersey if and when that player gets traded for a third round pick, two sticks and a bag of nickels. So with that said, welcome to the pod. Douglas. How are you doing? I'm doing really well. Great. I really enjoyed your little preamble. That was great. So before we get started talking about baseball, why don't we fill the FTFBTF listeners in on the inside joke?
Benjamin: Tell everyone about our bet related to nick foals. Nicole at the MVP quarterback from this year, superbowl recall, recalls that the nipples for referring to Ben. Yes, the journeymen quarterback. So I'm going to be the insufferable Philadelphia can on this call, be prepared and Nick foals will get traded for at least a second round pick in return for my winning the bet I will be receiving very nice bottle of Bourbon from Ben. The context or the caveats to that bet is nick foals needs to be treated in a package that includes a second round pick and it has to happen before the start of the 2000, 18, 2019 football season. I'm not going to make you buy me pappy van, but I think it's certainty. So thinking about saving up for a really nice bottle. So the bet here is that nick folds gets traded and that Philadelphia goes into the season with Carson Wentz who has now recovered from his acl tear. It's officially on the record. It's on the record, everyone's heard it. And uh, I will make you buy me Pappy van winkle when Nicole's gets traded, two third round picks or does not get treated before the beginning of the season.
Doug: I look forward to sharing with you my son.
Benjamin: I don't know if that was part of the bed. Anyway. So for starters, Doug, let's talk a little bit about baseball. My understanding is that Philly fans are notoriously, how should I say this? Abrasive, mean-spirited, hostile. Uh, tell me what it's like to be part of the fan base that throws batteries at Santa Claus.
Doug: Wow. Off the start, right off the bat, so to speak. You don't have to share a little anecdote with you then, which was when, uh, I was at a Philly's game and the late eighties called student Philadelphia at the time and affiliate were not good. They were pretty horrible. I think Nick Labor was the manager at that time. Anyway, we were of course doing this little fan thing which was screaming at the fans, cursing, yelling other college students, and there was a middle aged guy with his two young kids in front of me and at some point he finally got fed up and he turned around and he said, hey, will you guys stopped swearing? I'm here with my children and we felt awful, but in the second or two we felt off everybody in the stance around us scream profanities at the sky for telling us to stop swearing. I think that's the quintessential representation of what it's like to be a solo.
Benjamin: I don't even know how to follow up with that other than having children. I can only relate that to being something similar to going to an Oakland raiders game. Maybe
Doug: when it comes down to his passion for the sport is huge. Passion for All Philadelphia. Sports are huge. People are very much live and die by their teams, unlike the fair weather fans that joined on the giant bandwagon in 2010.
Benjamin: Right, and let's actually take a trip down memory lane and talk about 2010 now that you bring it up. The giants and phillies faced off in the playoffs in the [inaudible] and lcs, why don't we go through that series in a game by game fashion and you tell us what you remember about each game.
Doug: I can give you a capstone comment, which is that cody Ross is pure evil, but please go ahead. I'll take us through.
Benjamin: That was much more polite than I thought it was going to be. So game one of the [inaudible] and [inaudible] starting pitchers are Tim Lincecum and Roy holiday. What do you remember about that game? I remember
Doug: that Roy had thrown a. no, no, actually a perfect game. The Cincinnati series leading up to that one and feeling like Lindsay can most over-matched. I also remember that Roy was not at his best. I think he gave up 10 hits correctly and had trouble with his pitch count. It was discouraging to Rutz Roy not have the best game possible. That's my recall.
Benjamin: So looking back at the scoring line, the game was tied. A cody Ross hit a home run in the third, followed up by a home run by Carlos Ruiz in the third. San Francisco pulled ahead on a single by buster posey in the fifth, so giants up two to one. Both teams score two runs off of home, runs in the seventh, and the giants ended up winning four to three, and that second home run was again by cody Ross who hit two home runs off of Roy Halladay. So game one giant. So go up one, nothing to start the series. Ian Philadelphia, game two comes around. Do you remember anything about game too?
Doug: If don't then, but you clearly have wikipedia up in front of you. So I'm quickly matching your wikipedia with mine.
Benjamin: So game to royal, playing, pitching against Jonathan Sanchez. The philly is wiped the floor with the giants. It was a relatively close game to the fifth, uh, two to one game with Philadelphia ahead and Philadelphia scored four runs in the seventh to take the game to tie the series at one to one. The series shifts to game three and now we have Matt Cain against Cole Hamels. Little known fact to people outside of San Francisco. But Matt Cain went through the entire [inaudible] playoffs without giving up a run. So you can imagine how this game went. Matt Cain picks up the wind, Cole Hamels the last, the giants win three nothing, and Edgar Renteria, Freddy Sanchez, buster Posey, Pat Burrell, Aubrey Huff, all in on the action for the giant scoring
Doug: seven years in a series that I did my best to forget that I have to admit, I mean I'm recalling watching each of these games and kind of the thing that stuck out for me throughout the entire series was the phillies ability to put runs on the board and I felt like they were outmatched by the giant more often than I thought. And then cody Ross was the guy that kept coming through again and again. I also recall thinking too, you've got a lot of the former philly's players, as you recall, who was playing center field for the giants at that time. Aaron Ronan was the backup center fielder. Yeah. He started in game three and he had a couple of great catches, which at the end of the day really hurt the team as much as cody Ross,
Benjamin: Aaron Rowan, interesting contract when the giants were rebounding from the Terrible Pedro. Philly's yours, Erin. Ron was the first free agent signing the first person that would come to San Francisco and he actually left from Philadelphia after winning a world series, if I recall, and I think he was pretty popular in Philadelphia. Tell me, what do you think of Erin? Rowan?
Doug: Erin was the guy that was beloved in Philadelphia for having an orbital fracture of his face after crashing into the fence to catch a ball was reminiscent of the natural, except Aaron didn't die, but he was out for weeks and it's probably not worth the catch, but he was that kind of typical blue collar player. The Philadelphia Fan base loves.
Benjamin: He also had a batting stance that made it look like he was taking a shit well in the batter's box.
Doug: Yeah, I think he had talked to that only for the giants. That was his disdain for having to play for the giants. Franchise, I believe
Benjamin: must have really hated winning that world series championship ring. That must've been rough. So moving on, going into game four, San Francisco takes the game again. Brian Wilson picking up the win. This was madison bumgarner facing off against Joe Blanton, Joe Blanton, the a round mound of pitching rebound. Any comments on Joe Blend and his career in Philadelphia?
Doug: [inaudible] pitcher first for a really long time to go to remember that. That was the staff of aces, right? We had top to bottom for, you know, I would argue for the better pitchers in the NFL that time. No comment on that case at that point, but great pitchers. He went up there every fifth game and was the seventh best pitcher on that staff and yes, he's a former a which and dear to me it was a four or five year rate for the year. Solid ending seed go six every time. He played a little known fact that when that Roy had to come in and relieve was actually the losing pitcher. Walt
Benjamin: true, true. Royal as well is the losing pitcher in game four. Let's go through the pitching staff for that team. You had holiday Cole Hamels. You didn't have cliff Lee yet, did you?
Doug: He had been traded the year before. We were required him in 2011.
Benjamin: Right. So we've missed cliff Lee, so holiday handles, hose waltz, Blanton. I think that's it. Yeah, I think that's it. So game five, Roy Halladay against Tim Lincecum. Again, this one goes Philadelphia's way and let's get [inaudible], which is my favorite game of the series. Jonathan Sanchez as the starter makes it through, I think it was two innings and almost gets in a fight with chase. Utley leaves the game with the giants down to nothing and the giant scrap their way back to take a [inaudible] lead in the eighth inning with another cody Ross Rbi. He doubled and Ebay scored and the giants come back and win two to three after being down to nothing to take the series. Chase utley not exactly a giants fan favorite. Tell me, is he as big of an asshole in person as he looks like he is on tv?
Doug: Yeah. So go back in time if you will have it. Because I understand why giants fans would not love probably one of the greatest second basement of all time. And she sadly, but go back in time and remember when it was him, but it was Jimmy rollins and it was a Ryan Howard, Ryan Howard. Thank you. And that team, and you had three people competing for the [inaudible] MVP at all times. So that's the chief slightly remember, I remember the guy who took every at bat seriously, who studied harder than anybody else and frankly just never cracked a smile and give money to run. And that was the guy that I think of now you're thinking of the guy that played for the dodgers and was a giant killer for years and years. But yeah, chase is that guy for me.
Benjamin: So let's talk about the phillies this year. Uh, right now they're sitting in third place behind the mets and the Atlanta braves. Tell me about this year's phillies team, which are the giants fans know.
Doug: Ah, Gosh. You've got a team full of really young, interesting talent. I think they're analog right now. Is the A, is actually. He's another favorite team of mine in Oakland resident. There's a lot of really young hitting talent that still forming. I think the most exciting player on that team is hoskins who was in aaa this time last year, right around the same time he was catching fire and August and September. I think he had [inaudible] jacks in something like 20 something games, something ridiculous. Twenty two games. There was a guy over in Oakland that was catching fire and I think stole some of his thunder, so look out for him. He hit a couple of knocks against you guys last year, so you probably remember the guy that hit the three run homer. The second game of the series, fun guy to watch are kind of big, disappointing player right now is mckell Franco.
Doug: He was a hot prospect for years. He's been under-performing. He's recently had a bit of a search. We'll see how it does against the giants. He's the guy that's been hitting 2:40 should be hit three, 10 lots of power plate discipline at all and then we've got this kind of Errand Nola. You probably have heard about the staff. He is Cole Hamels, two inches shorter with a little bit more variety of pitches that, uh, we could change up lots of precision. So power hitting left fielder, a high ceiling third baseman that's under performing in an up and coming southpaw in as a starting pitcher. Those players, the giant should be thinking about how has the team performed so far this season, as I mentioned, they're sitting in third place. Is that to your expectations behind or how do you feel about the season so far? I think this is the team that's going to finish just out of the playoffs.
Doug: There's too much young talent that asked to form. There's a brand new manager in place who's really kind of putting down his way of approaching things. It's much more analytical. We were kind of the last team to let go the old kind of scout system, the old non analytical system. I think those things will take time to come together. I also think that that pitching staff is two pitchers deep right now. Everybody knows about the signing of Arietta and I've talked about Aaron Little Lola. I think our third, fourth, and fifth hole pitchers are OK now. I think we'll see them at the end of the season. We'll find a good picture then after that I think will struggle to find starting pitching great young bull pen. Interested to see what happens there. But also the, uh, great is superseded by the word young. So you're telling me that Charlie manual wasn't big into analytics.
Doug: Shirley was pretty folksy. He's a big hero in Philadelphia and he was a good manager, but I think lucky to manage a lot of great talent. So how much of it was the three central hall of famers he had, let's call it four with chase, who unfortunately was injured way too much, but Charlie was a manager at the time, but no, not an analytics guy. And tell me how the phillies fans think about San Francisco giants fans and how the giants who are going to do this season. I don't think the giants were on the radar for the average Philadelphia Fan. I think that having lived in both cities for a fair amount of time, I would say that Philadelphia tends to look down on west coast fence generally because they are not necessarily as into their teams and more fair weather fans, so I think that's the perception of giants fans.
Doug: Farrah, unfair. As a person who's again lived on both coasts, that's an unfair representation. I think giant's fans are extremely passionate, very knowledgeable, but I would say my own anecdote about giants fans in the depth of their knowledge versus the typical Philadelphia Fan. I was up in the. Have you been in the Virgin America Lounge before? Ben? It's the one place in the park. I haven't sat OK. That's a great place and I have to say I've had maybe one too many beers approach to randomly talking to fans there and ask them to tell me where your triple a and double a franchises are located and I have to tell you, I had a hard time finding a friend that knew that stuff, but I would tell you yes. The same thing of the Philadelphia Fan. Not only what they tell you, where triple in AA teams, they probably can tell you the difference between their rookie farm team and the team at Lakewood.
Doug: That could probably tell you who the star pitchers are, the Double-a triple-a level. You're going to tell me that Philadelphia fans know where their Aa aaa teams are located and how the teams are doing. They do. They're knowledgeable base. I feel like we have to put that into some sort of survey and see who are better. Now I'm getting into my internet marketing hat and we're close to talking about business, but we'll see about that. For the record, the giants, AAA team is in Sacramento. The AA team is in Richmond and the single a team is in San Jose. Well done. Then you. It's not that I have wikipedia in front of me at all. Their class a team as the Augusta Green jackets. They're classed a short team is the Salem volcanoes, Scranton Wilkes Barre reading, Lakewood, Florida. Thank you very much and you know what? Understanding where the farm system team is absolutely is a good measure of whether you are passionate about the major league team.
Doug: I can definitely see how Philadelphia fans take ownership of their rightful place as the most knowledgeable fans in the major leagues. You're walking button. Yep. So tell me about your favorite time going to [inaudible] park. Was it the [inaudible] and Lcas? You know, I was at game one then. And was this the candidate? Cody Ross got the knock at the end of the game. There were two home runs. That's right. There were two. So here's my story about [inaudible] and Lcas. Uh, you're right, cody rusted, hit two home runs and then went off to Florida. Completely sucked because that's who cody Ross was. Not to test the Philadelphia fans knowledge, but he went to Arizona. He came from Florida, sorry, Arizona. He came from Florida. It doesn't matter. He is evil personified, but it was in the city, in the outfield seats and I just so happened to be sitting with a group of guys from Salem, which is suburban Philadelphia.
Doug: It's the equivalent to long island culturally for the Philadelphia fans listening in, and I just happened to sit in the group of these Bensalem fans and uh, I have to say that they were unhappy with the results as well as I was. I was sitting there quietly and respectfully, but I watched several of my favorite Bensalem fans get into three fist fights within the space of about an inch and a half. And if people recall that game, there was at one point when they showed fans in the stands and they had a panel away because there was a fist fight going on and I was about three or four seats away from that fist fight. So this is not helping the reputation of Philadelphia fans, but they were unhappy with that. Is that a playoff specialty or is that something that happens regularly in the regular season?
Doug: You know, the first cuts for batteries then. So we only have so many tools at our disposal to cause havoc at. Again, I feel like I'm just ripping on Philadelphia. It turns out it's a nice place. The lovely place left it as soon as I took my pictures in the liberty bell and I decided to go where it was sunny. That's correct. So talk, let's talk to you about how you became a phillies fan and who are some of your favorite players on the phillies? Grew up in Philadelphia and this isn't a three channel days. Every once in a while you could catch the New York stations to the Yankees are maybe much orioles game depending on what was going on. But um, that was the only game in town and it was a big part of how I get to spend time with my dad. It was a busy guy.
Doug: I got to go to games a lot. And this is the old cavernous, you know the old vet they called it. I remember growing up watching the world's greatest ginger fro, held by Michael. Check Schmidt and was Zinsky and big mcbride. And of course a lefty with that. Just ridiculous breaking ball that would break down on the left when you thought it would go right. And I was watching those guys and they awful as a six year old and 73 and watch them become, at that time, the premier nfl franchise along with St Louis, not the giants. So Michael Jack Schmitt, Third Bass Hall of fame, or best third baseman of all time. Got To give that to Brooks Robinson. As much as I love Michael Jack, it's hard to argue that he is all the families. Got 500 home runs two time mvp frankly, was the reason that we won the world series in 1980.
Doug: But Brooks Robinson was art in motion. And sorry Michael Jack if you're hearing this, but yeah, I'd have to go with brooks more popular in Philadelphia. Michael, Jack Schmitt, Rocky Balboa or Carson Wentz. Micheal Jack. That's easy. Wow. Uniform millennial fans. Until remember Mike Schmidt, he was the god of the Philadelphia sports scene for 10 years. And people wept when he retired in 87. They, uh, we had a parade and grown men and women just bawling on the streets. And this was the, by the way, not the end of the season was mid season. She stepped down and it was like FDR had died in 1945. It was a devastating. Tell me about some other of your favorite players and maybe even let's mix in some giants, any giants, players that you have so much admiration for. Will Clark for space? My childhood hero. Yeah. I mean, you know, the things I always loved about.
Doug: Well, he was Mississippi Gentlemen when he interviewed. He was this great combination of arrogance and politeness and he had unequivocally the best swing I've ever seen. I think the only swing I've seen that I enjoyed watching more was chase utley just because it was such a compact swing, but every time he swung that bat you just wanted them swing again. I mean, there were times when I would watch Clark strike out and be like, that was. That was one of the more enjoyable things. I salted. Sweet. So beautiful. It was gorgeous. He was a gorgeous strike advocate. Secretly, the entire purpose for doing this podcast is the hopes of getting well Clark to be on the show, so a will. If this ever gets to your ears, you're welcome. Anytime you just knock on the door and we'll be here for you. I hope I can help me out, buddy. I have to say, I think the best relief pitcher you guys ever had is, um, let's just go back in the memory banks and most true giants fans, but Steve Budrow, the bedrock. Steve Bedrosian, former phillies fan. He was the closer, in 1989 when the giants faced the Aes in the world series. He had [inaudible]. We traded them off because we were off to the giants and he was an integral part of that team that year. Yeah, absolutely. Who, what
Benjamin: are their giants? Players have departed from Philadelphia and that we mentioned Erin Rowan, who else has gone from Philadelphia to San Francisco.
Doug: You know, that list is actually pretty long because franchises has been around for a really, really long time. I think people were a member. Some of the more kind of recent players that are out there. You had a wacky right fielder, hundred pounds, who I believe is still with the team, but he was one of these kinds of one and a half seasons had done Philadelphia type of players that are really wishing stuck around. He's that quirky, blue-collar, a passionate kind of approach to the game type of player that I think is well admired in both cities and he was talking about Aaron Robbins batting stance. I'm having a hard time thinking of a worst batting stance. Frankly.
Benjamin: It turns out hunter pence had a spine condition that was diagnosed by the giants training staff and it was like a degenerative spine thing that sets in when you're a child or something along those lines, and that's actually why his stance is so funny. He has this underlying medical condition that wasn't diagnosed for years. I like you're dumping a lot better than I. I think we're just going to say they both really need to use the restroom. I'm, I'm looking at San Francisco giants, Philadelphia Trades and all I'm getting is trade rumors and as it turns out, the giants were interested in treating for none other than chase Utley in 2015. That didn't end up happening.
Doug: There's not a lot of cross-pollination between. The teamsters is really interesting. I think when it happens, it feels like a benefit to the giant. Say I'm thinking back on all the trades that are happened and I can't recall one that favored the phillies.
Benjamin: I don't remember who we traded for to get hunter pence. It was a goat, a ball of twine and I believe a catching prospect. I think it might have been andrew. Zack, yeah. I hope that worked out for you. Yeah, no, that's awesome. Whoever that is, a giants trade morgan to the fills. Joe Morgan, how about that?
Doug: Yeah, it was part of the weeds kids. Nineteen 83. Joe Morgan. There you go. That actually worked out for sub until we ran into the [inaudible] world series,
Benjamin: so we give it. Then we take it the way. Turns out Joe Morgan was actually traded with Andrew Hall and a top relief pitcher, and that's how the giants obtained my crew, Co who was not only a great pitcher for the giants, 20 game winner, but also has the famous chance broadcast right now and we got probably one of the most arrogant,
Doug: difficult players in the history of the phillies. Enough people know what a bad club house presidents Joe Morgan was. But uh, he comes across that way to the hearing announced games.
Benjamin: Well, as much as we said what the giants gave it, the giants take it away. It sounded like that was one sided [inaudible] crew coach ended up being a mainstay in the giant rotation and also has stayed with the organization beyond his playing career.
Doug: Yeah. Well, I to tell you that was hell on the team. The three fills a job and was a big part of it, but boy, they couldn't get rid of Joe fast enough to that.
Benjamin: And before we let you go, one last story. Is there any favorite moments in baseball or a giants? Philly baseball history.
Doug: I have to say, Ben, the resentment at the giants runs very deep with me and with my Philadelphia fans. I have to say that my memories of that season are blurred completely by our last in [inaudible] s, and it was funny because I feel like in a lot of ways Philadelphia was handing off the mantle of excellence to the giants at that time. I noticed this supposed to be me ripping on the giants, but in retrospect it was really the beginning of the decline of the affiliates is greatest. We were at that time and it was time for a new model to takeover and I know that model is broken down for you guys recently, but wow, three world series after that, so I remember at the time being very upset. Again, cody Ross is the double, hopefully will clark also hates cody Ross, but as much as I look back and I feel upset about, but I do feel like that was our kind of passing the mental onto the giants. Now you get to go through the rebuilding phase. Congratulations. I think the phillies were way ahead. I look forward to the phillies coming and dominating the giants. Once again.
Benjamin: Well, I don't know if I necessarily agree that the phillies are light years ahead, obviously team with some young talent and we'll see how good they are in the upcoming series. So Doug, thank you for being on the for the fans by the fans podcast and that's a wrap for today's show. Our plan is to do this every week, so if you want more giants baseball on your podcast feed, click that subscribe button. Since we're just getting started, we'd also love for you to give us a rating in the apple itunes store or wherever you listen to your podcast, or you can send us any questions or comments at for the fans by the [inaudible] or you can find us on twitter, instagram, or facebook by searching f Taf, BTF, which stands for, for the fans by the fans. Thanks to our friends at fanatics. If you're going to go buy your giants gear or your Philadelphia phillies gear, uh, you can click the link in our show notes or go to f Taf, etf.com/fanatics and fanatics will kick has a couple of bucks to help produce this show. That's it for this time. Until next time, swing and a miss. And that's it.